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 America, What is Going On?

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tclanktree
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PostSubject: America, What is Going On?   Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:37 pm

After talking to Dragon Master today; I felt there is a lot of feelings (mostly bad) towards the up coming Elections in America and related issues.

You have anything you need to get off your chest about the American economy?

Anything you want to discuss about the War in Iraq?

How do you feel about our Candidates?


Do you like Politics?

You don't have to comment or answer but I felt it would be a good idea to just post these questions if anyone needs to talk about it. Idea



-Loneliness and the feeling of being unwanted is the most terribly poverty- Mother Teresa
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tclanktree
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PostSubject: Re: America, What is Going On?   Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:42 pm

Personally I am sick of the head honchos in the White House thinking they have the power to screw things up for the World.


I don't know enough about the War to comment on it.


I wanted Mike Huckabee to be the Republican Candidate.


I Hate Politics! Mad
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Iaello
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PostSubject: Re: America, What is Going On?   Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:32 am

It's a good idea to post here I think. Politics IMO always ruin any chat if its brought up, so a forum might be the best place for it. Many people tend to get all worked up when they are discussing it.

I cant say I've been following the world events this time. During the first Gulf War, after 9/11 and during the invasions of Afghanistan and Irak, I've been following the news with great interest. I know myself as a person who is all for peace, but a big part of me felt the invasions had to happen. However, I'm still not naive enough to think oil wasn't a big part of the conflicts.

About the current election and the post-war operations, I can't say I'm following events more than on the surface. My own irl stuff are taking up most of my energy, even if things has become pretty good here with me being off both alcohol and drugs for well over a year now.

As a small side note. After 9/11 I bought an American flag and at the 1 and 2 year aniverasry it was at the top of my flag pole. Some people in the neighborhood who saw it came to visit me to talk sense to me and wondered how the hell I could put that flag up there. Shows how anti-american most Swedish people are. I apologize for my fellow countrymen.

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PostSubject: Re: America, What is Going On?   Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:04 am

Im one of those anti-american Swedes. Guilty as charged. But when thinking about it, its not with the americans my isse is. Its with the goverment of the US as me and Valeria concluded yesterday. And that with (in my own not very objective opinion) right.

The president of the US and your congress (or whoever it is that rule over there) have the power to fuck up for the rest of the world if they so wish. All with your own "good intentions". Before the Second world war the US didnt do jack shit to "help out" in the world, but after the battle of Pearl Harbor when the japanese whacked half of the pacific navy.. The americans have been both here and there with their wet nose sniffing.

The war in Korea, the war in Vietnam, the war in Afganistan, the two wars in Iraq and I probably forgot something too, all happend after the the second world war. Now if Ive understood it right the Korean war, Vietnam war and Afgan war was all wars against communism. Because communism was evil. Who are the americans to decide what is right or wrong? Because they got the biggest muscles? Thats the law of the jungle and I thought we had passed that. And now I dont say what I think myself of communism, thats beside the point and was only used as an example. The wars in Iraq was to get control over the oil and "all" "know" that. If you want me to give arguments to that claim I will.

Whats "funny" with the current war in Iraq is, Oil. The war machine need oil to function. The US isnt self sufficiant when it comes to oil (which is one argument to why they want to control it) so where do they get the Oil from? *dramatic paus* The money the US pay for their oil, is in the long run used to buy guns by their foes. Which is used against the americans in the war. Nice twitch. Wink I cant back up that claim though since I saw that on a debate aired on TV.

I did my military service when 9/11 happend. The whole swedish army was in "attention" (may be wrong translated, you know... all men with stiff back and staring straightforward?) for 3 minutes at the same time to honor the americans. It was fucked up, 9/11. Cant argue against that. But the whole "war against terrorism" that followed is just another "american flexing biceps" in revenge. When americans flex the biceps, civilians in some poor ass part of the world suffer. Guess thats my biggest issue.

The americans have, in my opinion, as much right as any other country to act as "world cops" to kill the "evil" and make "good". That is, no right at all. The latest war in Iraq had the world opinion against AND didnt have the approval by the United Nations. The americans acted on their own (again) with the UK as thier lapdog. Law of the Jungle, I got the biggest muscles so I decide what is right or wrong.

Im not saying that Usama Bin Laden or Saddam Hussein are good guys, nice fellows that did nothing but good for their people. My issue is with the american way. What they think they have the right to do, or even Must do. Let me ask a question then... How come the americans havent attacked China a long time ago? They are ruled by communism. Or why not Pakistan or North Korea again? Oh.. They maybe bite back to hard.. Hm... Or couldnt it be that the resoursces those countries have isnt worth the effort to control? Not compared to how expensive it would be to get the control. On top of that it just may be so that some of them may have Nuclear weps just as the US have. So why not disarm them as they was going to disarm Iraq? Not that Iraq HAD any weapons of that kind but... Anyway... Or why not Turkey? That people is fucked up too. Since the US so much want to help everyone in the world to get a better life, why not those countries? Smile

We dont even have to go that far to find Neuclar weapons.. Why not France? They got it too. But it wouldnt be very popular to attack a country in the EU? Maybe not... But... Oh well.. Lets just shit on the "evil" people instead shall we? Smile

Speaking of nuclear weapons.. Iraq isnt allowed to have them but... The US, France, Russia and so on are? Who decide that? Oh I forgot.

The Law of the Jungle.

The human kind is nothing but aggressive barbarians.
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Barok
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PostSubject: Re: America, What is Going On?   Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:02 pm

Lol typical. You guys always come begging to us for help but when we do help you bite our hand.

I'm beginning to agree with you, the US should ignore everything that happens outside our borders, let the rest of you go to hell.

You seem to deserve it.
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Huklebuc
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PostSubject: Re: America, What is Going On?   Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:48 am

I I love you Barok. cheers

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tclanktree
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PostSubject: Re: America, What is Going On?   Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:40 am

HA!

DM has a good point.

Its is good to see how people feel about the situation. No one talks about the issues. I mean its good and all to ignore the subject but it won't go away if left unsaid. The only talking I do hear about our problems is on CNN and FOX. I get tired of them. I wanted to hear it from my neighbors if you know what I mean.


I am satisfied we everyone's replies.

Thank-you Gentlemen!
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Dragonmaster
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PostSubject: Re: America, What is Going On?   Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:50 am

Nice way of meeting my very valid points and arguments Barok. If you cant discuss like an adult dont say anything at all.

I agree with you though, the americans should stay at home. If not the UN think something should be done. The UN is what it sounds like, "United Nations". Where like 200(I dont know the exact number..) countries together decide what should be done, not just One country.

Can you give examples of where another country reached out for the US, begging them to help? Because I sure cant. You may be right on one occation or maybe two I really dont know and I dont make claims I cant backup very often. But most oftenly the US have been the invading country.

Did you know that the US are seen as (atleast by the people I know) the biggest terrorists of them all?

Im not pooping on you personally Barok. Youre a good guy and we dont have to think alike. Im pooping at the goverment of yours, the president of yours and the american mentality as I sense it. American mentality? "We are the biggest the best, better than the rest..." And whoever is the biggest and the best have of course(?) the right to decide what is right and what is wrong..

Nothing strange with that though. The Romans did it before you, the Egyptians before that, the Germans did it for a very short period of time (1939-1943) even us Swedes have done it in the middle of the 17th century.

A question of philosophy.. If the US was the country beeing looked upon as terrorists by the all so mighty much bigger and better people of Cyprus. Or something like that.. How would you react if Cyprus came to you to kill your leader and fuck your people up with the intentions to help you? "Oh.. Your leader is bad, here we bring a much better type of goverment to you!" If you ask the Iraqi people today if they want the US army there, they say No. If you ask them if they have it better today than under Saddam Hussein, they say No.

They dont feel helped, they dont want you there so good luck with the continueing wrecking of your own economy to support the war. I read the USA is.. What was it? 300+ Billion dollars behind this year..

How about that?
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PostSubject: Re: America, What is Going On?   Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:22 am

in my oppion this would have never of happened if it was not for or goverment the 9-11 issue and war and all it have been proven that 9-11 was to bring or conuntry closer together when really it is seperateing it by puting our ppls life on the line out there for a reason that was done by our own goverment i have all the videos and talked with ppl from the 9-11 they all say the same thing it was someone inside that knew the buildings front to back sure maybe the high jackings and all happened but base the fact them building was built to hold anything then everyone even watching the videos heard the bangs befor each part of the building colapsed or men are out there for what nothing i believe they should be brung home i believe we should be at peace and last but least i believe america is due for a change for decadas we have had all white presdienst i my self believe i am vote for our first black fresdient and in hopes that for once our conuntry will be at peace i also believe another would war 3 will start by the looks of things thats the road we are heading down if stuff don't change we as americans shouild mind or own bisnuesss untill we are ask to help irak and them didn't ask for or help in benladan we put or noise in it because it at the point in time was what the president and goverment felt was right when in fact it was not we should have took what was loss and left it that way and let the country deal with what they wanted to do we would not be at war right now if we had keep our nosie's out of it and let all be i believe in change and yes stock market is down but if not for our presdient it would not be up and going all of this is because of the war



plane and simple i want our souilders home and for the war to end and america to be ready for a change because it will happen and i just know it by the reviews and all..............
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Dragonmaster
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PostSubject: Re: America, What is Going On?   Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:30 pm

Ouch Logan... Punctation and Capital letters please?
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PostSubject: Re: America, What is Going On?   Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:21 pm

I do believe we in Europe should wait with condemning the US for their role as a "world police". Seems to me the screwed up world today needs a police. We would have been lost to the expansion of the third reich and we would have been lost to the Soviet expansion in post-war Euroupe. Bringing up the evils of Hitler and Stalin may seem like old news but the fact is, without the US, we would have found ourselves ruled by dictators.

I don't believe for a second the US is the root to all evil in the Middle-East.

I don't believe in the right for every nation to pursuit their own nuclear weapons program. The world is not a perfect place and I dread the day volatile nations (in the world today read Iran and North Korea)get their hand on those weapons.

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PostSubject: Re: America, What is Going On?   Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:00 am

Yepp, Europe would probably not be the place it is today if the US didnt step in with their muscles during the second worldwar, cant argue on that point. But, the US also didnt do jack shit to help during the second worldwar before they got attacked themselves. That was when Japan sank half their Pacific navy in the "battle" for Pearl Harbor. Was it 1942? I dont exactly remember may have been 1941.. The war started 1939. So the USA was Neutral for atleast 2 years in the war. They war was brought to them. They got dragged into it. They didnt join by thier own free will to help out to begin with, but who can blame them? Who the heck want to go to war? Sweden was one of very few european countries that officially was Neutral during the whole war. Sweden has infact not officially been into war since 1814 during the end of the Napolian wars. And in practice, we havent been in war since 1809 when we lost Finland to Russia.

I see it as the first American revenge for beeing pooped on. More would follow, the war against terrorism after 9/11 is just the latest example. My point is, they didnt exactly reach out to help that time. Not before they got attacked themselves. Nowadays they reach out to "help" on their own though, no matter what the world opinion may be. Why didnt they start this war against terrorism before 9/11 even happend?

I dont belive the US is the root of all evil in the Middle-East either. Religion is. Or more specified, fundamentalists. Fanatic religious people. But, I am sertain that the US is a part of the boiling cauldron there. They are an aggresive nation, history show that time and again.

Ok here we agree, no nation should have the right to have nuclear weapons. Not because 20 000 people would die if a bomb was used (it was something like that in Hiroshima?) but because of the consequenses that would follow. A full scale nuclear war between two or more nations would make planet Earth unhabitable, literally. So its just idiotic to even have it. You cant stick a knife in someone if you dont wear a knife now can you? If noone had a knife, there wouldnt be any problems with knives. I also agree that Iran and North Korea should be watched very carefully. But why not the US? They are agressive too. Dont belive for a second they wouldnt take revenge if someone attacked them with nuclear weapons. But I dont think even they are stupid enough to use it first, again. I did ask earlier in this thread, if the US so much want to help out in the world. Why dont they disarm Pakistan and North Korea or Iran? They dont have nuclear weapons yet? Well that shouldnt be much of a problem, Iraq didnt have that either. Oh I forgot.. That was for the oil...

EDIT: Moving this thread to its proper forum.
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PostSubject: Re: America, What is Going On?   Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:03 am

Hey all!

I have to weigh in on this too.

DM, US was involved in WWII before we were attacked, but we were sneaky about it and we were sending supplies under cover to the Allies. We did not opening join until after Pearl Harbor though - which still til this day visitors to go - and LAUGH at the sunken ships and the number of our military members who died.

I'm not exactly pleased with our leadership in Washington either, which is why I plan on exercising my right as a registered voter to VOTE on November 4. I'm not pleased with the leadership in our state and quite frankly, the ones who have been there the longest have forgotten what they were there to do to begin with. I'm not exactly pleased with our choices for President either.

But I do have to agree with Barok on something. We need to back off, pull everything back in and take care of home. I'm not a fan of the UN and it's been seen for many years now that many nations vote against us in the UN. So, I think we need to pull out of the UN and take our money with us. After the atrocities UN troops have committed, they don't need our help in being terrorists to ANY nation. And on the note of pulling out, Kick them out of the US, put a for sale/for rent sign in front of UN headquarters and be done with it.

Everyone hates us until our money is involved. Very simple. You don't like us? Fine, don't like our money either. Why should we be supporting all the other nations anyway? Recall ALL our loans out there, with interest due.. NOW. But the worst part about this idea? When something happens... then it will be 'Why didn't the US come help? Where's the US? Oh that's right, they are a selfish nation'.

I also think we need to drill for our own oil, flood the market, and tell OPEC and Venezuela to fuck off. How much cheaper would gas be for everyone if we had another source to pull from than letting OPEC, Canada and Venezuela dictate what's produced and sold?

Sorry if this sounds extreme.... Guess I'm getting really tired of everyone complaining about the US and what we do. But then how much complaining is going to happen when/if we don't?
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